During the week of 20th September 1990, our Victoria Wing Chun club had the honour of meeting Master Wong Shun Leung and Master Tsui Sheung Tin from Hong Kong. Master Wong Shun Leung and Master Wang Kiu were very good friends and usually hung around together in Hong Kong. Master Wong Shun Leung was a senior student of the late Grandmaster Ip Man. Master Wong Shun Leung is famous for his fights and for having mentored Bruce Lee.
Master Tsui Sheung Tin was the third official student of the late Grandmaster Ip Man in Hong Kong and Master Wong Shun Leung was probably THE most famous fighter of the Wing Chun clan in the early 1950's. Bruce Lee was a student of Ip Man but it was mostly Wong Shun Leung who taught Bruce Lee his Wing Chun.
Yvette Wong invited the two masters to visit the city of Victoria, B.C. for a holiday and at the same time arranged for them to give a two hour seminar. During their stay, she had frequent opportunity to clarify various points about Wing Chun. I documented most of what they said, in the hopes that some of these points will help the next generation of practitioners with their Wing Chun.
After reading these points again, I am amazed' at how many things these masters said in a very short seminar. They were literal!y overflowing with knowledge. These points were translated by Yvette Wong from the Cantonese talk that Master Wong Shun Leung gave. This means we may not have captured the true essence of all that was said.
Siu Lim Tao
The first set is like your alphabet. It allows you to construct words and sentences. Without it you cannot construct anything. It is the basic foundation of the Wing Chun art. Many of the concepts of the later sets already have their roots in the first set. For example the Jip sau (trapping hand) of the second set, is a combination of the first set Jut sau (jerking hand), and the first set Tok sau (uplifting palm; the movement performed after the Bong sau – Wing hand).
The stance is done pigeon-toed in order to have a stable solid structure. It is like a camera tripod or pyramid. Triangle structures are the most stable of all structure. A wider different stance is not as flexible. Also when you get tired a different stance will cause you to collapse to the ground. The Wing Chun stance will still hold you up because of its triangular characteristic.
The crossing the hands down and up in the first set defines your vertical center line. If you draw a straight horizontal line and use a compass to mark a cross above and below the straight line, then by joining the two points, you get
a vertical centerline This line runs through the centre of the horizontal line. All actions in Wing Chun are done through this centerline. The crossing the hand down and up doesn't seem to have any apparent useful purpose because the action looks so simple. But if you perform this movement correctly, you will have the proper structure and use of force for applying a Tan sau (palm up hand) and punch defence. At the seminar, none of the strong students could prevent Master Tsui Sheung Tin from lifting his Tan sau up. With the Tan sau he could unbalance anyone. With the Fook sau and Bong sau he could do the same thing. When someone gave Master Tsui Sheung Tin a heavy punch, he applied an effortless uplifting Tan sau from the crossed hand position, to really whack that person's force away. That person was really shocked by the explosive force. (Note don't interpret this as Master Tsui Sheung Tin advocating hitting force away. He was just illustrating the strength of proper structure.)
If you punch down your centerline when you are facing an opponent all of your force will go to the opponent's centerline. It won't be deflected to one side or the other. In this way he will receive the full impact of your force.
The punch in the first set is done with wrist action, with the elbow down. In this way you use the ground for support. This gave Bruce Lee's one-inch punch a lot of force. If you put your elbow out, it twists your body and the ground is not helping support the punch. If the elbow is out, some of the force will be lost.
In many movements, you should analyse your line of force in order to maximise that force. If for example you punch with your shoulder raised up, the force line goes from your fist, up your arm and out your shoulder. This is much weaker than if you had the force line come up from the ground.
The Huen sau or wrist circling is to train your wrist to have the wrist force you need for a strong punch. Also it helps strengthen the wrist so it doesn't bend during the punch and injure the wrist. The circling hand is also used to change your position relative to the opponent once you have made a mistake. For example if your opponent throws a right punch and you apply a right hand high Tan sau, your head is open to his left punch. By circling the top hand you can change your position so you no longer create this opening.
The Wing Chun art has to do with economy. If we make a mistake, how can we recover our position? For
example, if someone throws a right punch and you use left Bong sau, this is a good Bong sau because you aren't worried about the opponent's other hand. But if you use a right Bong sau against an opponent's right punch, your head and lower rib area is left exposed to the opponent's left punch. Now suppose a low left punch comes. You can use a shift towards the right with a right hand high and left hand low Gan sau (chopping hand – hand of separation) to recover your position. Likewise if an opponent punches with a left high punch and you use a left high Gan sau, your side and head are
open to the opponent's right punch. You can use a shift and left hand high Kwun sau (right low Bong and left high Tan ) to recover your position.
Master Tsui Sheung Tin used the Tan sau, Bong sau and Fook sau structures very effectively to deal with all kinds of force. You could not lift his arm, but you could not prevent him from lifting his.
When you do the first set, just relax and let all your force come out naturally. You can sometimes apply a small force but sometimes you have to apply a very strong force. The first set tells you how that force can best be applied.
The side Gum sau (pressing down hand) can be used if an opponent grabs your wrist and elbow. In this case you can just use a Gum sau and shoulder hit to get rid of his force and counterattack. Even if your arm is twisted behind your back, you can escape with minimum force by straightening the arm, and turning the wrist in such a way that you can apply a Tai Chi or Aikido type of straight arm throwing action to throw the opponent over. You have to apply the technique correctly so that not much force is required.
The backward hit in the first set could be a rear groin hit or grab. It is not often used. But if someone grabs you tightly from behind, you bring your hands close to your body and slide them behind you. This may cause your opponent, while still holding on, to bend his groin area away from your attack. This will give you some room to maneuver in order to apply another technique.
The elbow up and chop to the side action should be done in a natural sort of way. If someone pushes your elbow, then by spreading out your hand in a relaxed way they will be unbalanced.
In the Kwun sau part of the first set, Master Tsui Sheung Tin brought his palm back to the side of the body, with the fingers pointing up. He used this if his arm was pressed to the center, to make the force of the opponent go off to the side.
The low palm part of the first set is done differently by different first generation students. Master Wong Shun Leung and Master Tsui Sheung Tin said some do it this way, or this is how it was taught, but we prefer this variation much better. The original version of the first set low palm movement is that a Tan sau comes out, followed by a Jum sau (sinking hand) , followed by a circling hand, followed by a low palm hit then a grabbing hand, followed by the fist being pulled back. In Master Wong Shung Leung's version, the Tan sau is followed by a Gan sau,
which is followed by a Tan sau, followed by a Huen sau, followed by a low palm hit, followed by a grabbing hand and then the fist is pulled back. This change was incorporated as a result of some fighting experiences. Now many teachers of Wing Chun do it this way.
Some people think that the first set brushing the arm action is to get rid of a strong grab on the wrist, but this does not work. The real idea is if you are controlled, like by the elbow, then you can use the idea from this action to regain the centre position.
The third set: Wong Kiu's idea of regaining the centre does not really conflict with Wong Shun Leung's idea of unusual situations or Augustin Fong's idea of emergency situations.
The two master explained many fine points like this from all of the forms. This will be documented elsewhere.
In the evening the two Master gave another seminar. This time they decided to focus just on the third form of Wing Chun. We had some Wing Chun people and some people who never learned any kind of martial art at the seminar. One particularly strong individual wanted to know how to handle a very strong hook punch. So Master Wong Shun Leung told him to throw it. The punch was a bit stronger than Wong Shun Leung expected so I saw he was rocked a bit. But when he told the puncher to do it again, he formed a better stance structure and it was no problem for him to handle.
Questions and Answers
Master Wong Shun Leung, can you comment on some of the fights you have had?
When we won in a fight, we weren't always happy just to win. We tried to figure out how to win in a better and more economical way. The best is always if only a single action is required. Try not to use two actions. Like when kicking, Wing Chun doesn't like to lift the knee first and then kick because this is a two step action. Also the line of force is wrong because your kick will not have ground support. Instead, your kick will transmit back to your body to off-balance you. This is why Ip Man's kick in the second set looks a bit funny at first. We want to travel in a straight line from the ground to the target, not lift the knee first.
Can you comment on boxing?
In boxing, the style has changed over the years from crouching to being more and more vertical. Also people used to jump around, but the modern boxer like Tyson just moves in flat footed to demolish his opponent in a scientific way. In Wing Chun a person does not bob as in boxing. When two beginners fight it doesn't matter how they fight, but against professionals it makes a difference. Even a smaller [person] is better off to keep the body vertical and step back, then to bob and weave. This is because the hand can move faster than the body. Boxing is still like a game because there are rules for how you can hit and how you can't hit. If you attack someone and they bend their head, then in Wing Chun you can still hit them with your hand even without pulling your hand back.
What is the idea of the Chain punches in Wing Chun?
In Wing Chun if you throw two fast punches to someone's head they'll be knocked out. The first punch causes the brain to go to one side of the skull If a quick second hit comes, the person is knocked out. If you withdraw the hand to give the second punch, then the brain can recover (will have more time to recover), but if you don't give this time then a knockout results.
How can you deal with a good kicker?
Against a strong kicker there are two ways to fight. If you are experience just go into their centre and hit. But if you aren't, then back up. Each time the opponent misses, he will lose one degree of confidence. After a while you have more chances.
What is the idea of the wooden dummy?
The idea of the dummy is that we do make mistakes. When we do, how car we recover from those mistakes in the most economical way? How can we minimize the error we have made?
What can you do against the low side kick?
For low side kick attacks, Wong Shun Leung uses the feet. For knee attack, he said if you hit straight the knee cannot really get you. Against the Thai boxing round kick Wong Shun Leung kicks straight forward, rather than use a clashing force with a Bong leg. This forces the kicker straight back.
Of what use is the Chum Kiu Jip sau movement?
One use is as follows: if someone grabs your shirt you can use the first set Jut sau combined with an uplifting palm to injure the arm of the opponent. This is more economical than the Judo method of grabbing the hand and twisting it.
Why do the hands go up and down in section four of the wooden dummy?
In section four of the wooden dummy Wong Shun Leung said there is no up and down palm movement to start it off, it's a forward pushing palm movement.
What is the third set foot circling action used for?
The third set foot circling action is used for:
foot sweeping, foot interception, circling steps to chase an opponent who is very mobile and tries to evade from side to side while trying to throw sweeping hook punch' to your head.
What is better, the spear or the pole?
Wong Shun Leung said the long pole is the Wing Chun weapon instead of the spear. He said the long pole can deflect lighter weapons out of the way easier.
What do some other Wing Chun Sifus you have seen do wrong?
Some have too much movement when they defend.
Was Ip Man good?
Wong Shun Leung said if he wasn't good then he would never have joined up. He said Ip Man was very good.
Did Ip Man teach all of the principles or did you figure them out?
Ip Man taught many of the principles but we also figured some out from experience and long discussions. Wing Chun teaches you how to think. People have found that Wing Chun principles can also be applied to other areas of one's life.
Can you comment on the effect of a punch?
Wong Shun Leung said that when you punch the head the brain hits the side of the skull. If the brain is against the side of the skull and a second hit follows, then damage and a knockout results because there is no cushioning possible. This is why Wing Chun has its rapid fire punches instead of the pull back approach.
What kind of art is Wing Chun?
Wong shun Leung said that Wing Chun is an attacking art. The idea is to hit straight right away. Don't have any roundabout motions.
What is a tip for our sticking hands and for real Wing Chun?
Don't play with hands. Try to hit the opponent each time.
We have heard that you taught Bruce Lee. Can you comment on this?
Bruce Lee was good. All of the credit cannot go to the teacher.
How does Wing Chun approach knife fighting?
Wong Shun Leung said he has faced multiple opponents armed with knives However on the subject of knife fighting training, Wong Shun Leung said Wing Chun does not send you out to get killed. Even if you can defend against eighty percent of the knife attacks, the remainder will get you killed. A lot of defences are not realistic because the knife can twist around. Sometimes a kick to the hand is used.
How do we bring the Fook sau to the centre in the Chum Kiu form?
In the second set when you chop to the side and bring the Fook sau to the centre, the elbow moves first because this is a shorter distance. It really whacks the arm and then comes straight forward towards your head.
Can you comment on some of the Wing Chun shapes?
Master Tsui Sheung Tin said the shapes are not as important as the structure. This is more important than the sticking feeling with the Fook sau exactly level. Both masters felt that the flat Fook sau is very bad and is use only because people can't do the other Fook sau properly. The flat one is bad because you can't punch as fast from this position.
Is the Fak sau or neck chop used a lot?
Master Wong Shun Leung never teaches to hit the neck because once his finger tips caught someone's neck and that person almost died. He instantly went pale.
How does the Tan sau elevate?
The Tan sau structure is elevated as one unit in order to handle force. The arm never bends from the elbow.
How can you respond to a grab?
If you hold two arms out in front of you and someone grabs them, then you can use the third set elbow movement to escape. Bring the hand right in to touch the body. If the hand is held in a fist, it doesn't work. Then press down with the elbow.
How can you escape from a rear arm lock?
To escape from a rear arm lock, straighten the arm by choosing the best line of force. The hand turns and goes in an upward direction. Then step in and unbalance the opponent.
Can you explain a bit about what Wing Chun is?
On the subject of what is Wing Chun, Master Wong Shun Leung said that if you make a mistake then you learn how to minimise that mistake. You learn to recover quickly. So in essence he was saying that Wing Chun is really about being economical in your actions and use of energy.
How much did you train when you learned Wing Chun?
Wong Shun Leung said they trained six days a week, six hours a day. Bruce Lee learned for about one and a half years and then went to the USA.
What is the literal meaning of "Wing Chun"?
Wing Chun means "Springtime Song''
Why are there differences in Wing Chun terminology?
Ip Man did not pass on all these things. Some terminology like Ding sau is made up because they really didn't have a term for some of these things.
Do the Hong Kong Police still use Wing Chun?
The Hong Kong police do not really want to use Wing Chun now that much because it is too aggressive an art. They are supposed to just help and protect people, not attack them.
Have you taught any women who are good ?
Wong Shun Leung has not really taught too many woman except the all Asian champion who was a very aggressive woman. She is now married an out of it.
Could we see some sticking hands between the two masters?
Wong Shun Leung said that you would not see too much because it is like when two teams who are good play together, they are so evenly matched that it looks boring. The same is true when you watch a match between two equal judo players.
Can you comment on the straight line concept?
Wong Shun Leung said when you kick a football on the side it will wobble and won't fly straight, but when you kick the football dead center the football flies straight and the most force is transmitted to the ball. Therefore we hit people in the center as well.
Is the triangle theory of any use?
Wong Shun Leung said the theory of triangles is very important in Wing Chun, because this is a very stable structure. It is used not only in the theory of our stance (like a pyramid or the Eiffel Tower) but also in the angles of our arms.
Of what use is the Gan sau and the Huen sau?
The Gan sau is used to recover from a Bong sau mistake. The Huen sau is used to recover from a Gan sau
mistake. A mistake is when you apply a technique which leaves you open, exposed or vulnerable on one side.
Do you have a lot of drills when you teach?
In Hong Kong we don't use a lot of drills. We teach sticking hands and build everything into it.
