The Correct Tan sau

What is the correct Tan sau? Ray Van Raamsdonk June/1995

The Tan sau is a wing Chun hand that looks like the position when you ask for money with an extended hand. The Tan sau is one of the three key Wing Chun hand techniques, the other two being the Fook sau and the Bong sau. The Tan sau can be translated as a palm up hand or a spreading open hand or a dispersing hand. There is a story of a famous Wing Chun master who used the Tan sau for everything. He was famous for that.

The early Yip Man’s teachings used the level Tan sau. Master Wang Kiu made it quite clear with the example that if your Tan sau is not level then like the asking for money hand, if someone gives you some money, then it will slide out of your hand.

Later on most people did an elevated Tan sau. Both camps used to argue which one is better, leaving the beginning students who try the different lineages of wing Chun confused.

The idea of proofs

In mathematics you can prove whether something is correct or not and the proof cannot be disputed. There are also beliefs in mathematics however which eventually get proved or disproved.

In physics you can come up with a theory then you look into nature for examples which support that theory. But no amount of examples can prove the theory correct (Einstein’s theory) . However one counterexample could cause a theory to be rejected (the ether idea).

In engineering you use a theory until someone comes up with a better theory or until your structures come tumbling down.

In philosophy you can argue all day long and never reach any conclusions. (Simplified view).

In Chess you can have a theory which eventually gets rejected if it doesn't work in enough master matches. However such a theory sometimes gets revived when someone has some new or deeper insight to make that old theory work.

In politics it is difficult to decide which approach is better since every approach makes 1/2 the people happy and 1/2 of the others unhappy. You can always convince the unhappy people that any other approach will be better for them (simplified view).

In Wing Chun each school is able to convince their students with a form of logic that their view is the correct view. There are

1) Proofs by intimidation
2) proofs by ridicule
3) proofs by authority
4) proofs by logic
5) proofs by pseudo logic
6) proofs by example

Over the years I have heard all the kinds of things below. It is easy to see how beginning students can get confused. It is easy to see why there are many versions of Wing Chun.

Sifu#1 : the Tan sau should be flat because Yip Man did it that way.

Student: yes, who would know better than Yip Man. The later version must have been a corruption or a version he needed because the students were taller.

Sifu#2 : the Tan sau should be elevated because Yip Man did it that way.

Student: yes, the later version must have been an improvement.

Sifu#3 : try the flat Tan sau and the elevated Tan sau, which one feels more relaxed.

Student: yes I can see that the flat one is more relaxed. Now I see why we do the flat one.

Sifu#4 : try the flat Tan sau and the elevated Tan sau. Notice I can keep hitting you when it is flat and I can't hit you when it when it is elevated?

Student: yes I just can't seem to stop those hits coming in. I guess my Tan sau is too low.

Sifu#5 : try the elevated an sau that the other schools use. See how I can hit it up into your face and how I can tense it when I jerk it down

Student: yes, that's a big difference. The elevated one sure gets me into :a lot of trouble.

Sifu#6 : I will elevate the Tan sau and you by to move it in any direction, see if you can move it

Student: wow, I can't move your Tan sau in any direction. Neither can move your Bong sau or Fook sau. So I guess the elevated Tan sau is pretty good if you know what you are doing.

Sifut#7 : Some people have the Tan sau too low, and others have it too high. Too low and you get punched over top and too high and you get it hit into your face. So we have it at about a 20 degree angle.

Student: That makes a lot of sense. In that way you also have the best of both worlds.

Sifu#8 : Try the flat Tan sau. See how I can hit you. Now elevate it just a touch. Don't you feel more alertness in you hand. The softer way is just too loose. Isn't it better to have a little more alertness.

Student: yes, I can see what you mean.

Sifu#9 : I will have a flat Tan sau. Now you try to hit me. You can't can you If you try to disengage and hit me high you will get hit first because I can stick to you. Now you elevate your Tan sau, notice my fist is now in front of your face. Would you rather have my fist there or lower

Student :The flat one looks bad but I can't seem to hit you. With the elevated one you seem, to hit my face.

Sifu#10 :Did you ever see what happens to a boxer when his hands drop ? He gets hit. It's a fact. So if you want to get hit, use the flat Tan sau. It's obvious, isn't it ? I don't know why people can't think

Student :yes, it seems obvious to me too. You should elevate the Tan sau always.

Sifu#11 :In martial art there is never an extreme. Things should be in balance. Not too much and not too little. You use low when it should be low and high when it should be high. In Wing Chun the "Siu Lim Tao" and the sticking hand, positions just represent the neutral positions against which you compare deviations away from.the neutral position. As soon as you detect such a deviation then you can counterattack the opponent. When the opponent's energy starts up, that is the time to strike. If you miss the timing you are lost. When the other sifu's do things to you, it is because they are more experienced than you. They can get away with a lot of things because you are a beginner. The Taoist way is the do nothing neutral way. Don't be active, conserve your energy. The flat one is the good one..

Student :Boy that's very deep. I am kind of into philosophy so I can really see what you mean. It's a beautiful concept, this idea of neutrality and nothingness, isn't it ? I can see how it is easy to stray off the path especially when a macho instructor forces his opinion on you. Hopefully I will understand one day.

Sifu#12 :In martial arts talk is cheap. Not many philosophers can fight their way out of a wet paper bag. What do you want to do, talk or fight ? Who cares about flat or elevated? Your opponent is not going to let you touch their hands anyway. The whole sticking hands thing is overrated. Even if your sticking hands is good, you can still lose the fight. Sensitivity will only take you so far. Don't worry so much about that stuff and start working on your strength and speed. Feel my punch. Pretty shocking isn't it ? What do you want to be a wimp or a fighter, ever hear of a fighter who doesn't have a good punch?

Student :I guess we all need a reality check every once in a while. Yes, who cares about the little details anyway. That's sure not going to help in a fight. I am going to start weight training right away. I guess the people who can't fight just talk. guess I just need more skill with the flat one.